Substantial Changes... Ever.

Joined: Posts: -19

Hi all, I'm Vesper, for those that don't know me, I was a big Rogue once upon a song. So, since I no longer give a damned, and I've played a big rogue to about the biggest height it can be played (220+, I don't recall the exact number.)

This mud has become stagnant as all hell. There's very few new players... just the same old folks that keep big characters and the same old folks that like to reroll. So what's the state of ole DS right now.

Guilds. Guilds are about as unbalanced as you can get. Fighters, and druids are awesome. The rest of the guilds fall into various ranges of fail. If you're a physical character, your options are to become GM for the big dice damage weapon or multi-class into every guild to cherry pick the best skills. In my opinion, someone that focuses on a single guild should remain competitive and yet they don't. How does this encourage RP? It doesn't, unless we're all Renaissance men and women. Spellcasters are encouraged to stay in guild, yet even their powers can be duplicated to a degree by the skilled multi-classer that is wise enough to learn to use wands.

Areas - Copper Dragon Scale? Chiros Leather? Night Dweller Gauntlets? Necklaces of Thumbscrews? Dragon Pendants of Eternity? Any of these ring bells? I guarantee they do because at some point or another, you've used some of them. At each level, there is equipment that clearly is superior (and yeah, I get that I only gave a small sampling). It's a small enough Pbase we all know what's good, and we mostly know how to get it. The same goes for hunting. The cities (Sehaelas, Diabolus, Lasen) get over-hunted while most of the rest of the mud languishes. I understand that areas take time and effort to create, but it'd be good to see more diverse hunting grounds and more diverse equipment across the mud.

Imm involvement - This has varied admittedly. And before I go further, I will say that anyone who is immortal or staff on a mud is generally volunteering their time if not outright pumping money into a project that they love. Is this still a labor of love.. I've been off and on the past couple years, the few big projects I remember coming in since 2007 have been the Chiros area and a few minor changes to rogues. The Rogue guild skills that have been added since were all either window dressing (palm, stealth, etc) or didn't work at all (traps). This is before you consider the problems with skills already in guilds. I"m most familiar with the Rogues problems, though I know others exist. It seems like even on a volunteer basis with limited time put in, some of these problems could have been addressed. This seems to have picked up recently, but only time will tell if any meaningful changes to guilds or areas increase.

RP - Most of the arguments I've made are mechanics driven to which the older folks will reply, RP! So, let's discuss this. I think most of us have some interest in playing in character, but is that truly RP? Is that ongoing plotlines and story that are compelling? It's been awhile since I've seen character-driven story here and that's a shame. Part of the problem is the small playerbase, but part is the sameness of it all. There's nothing new, nothing fresh to aerate the DS playing experience.

I hope this generates discussion and thought, even if it's "Vesper you're dumb and you don't know anything" I think most of us here enjoy the mud or we wouldn't come back. I think most of us are willing to support it how we can, but ultimately, at it's current pace, it's unsustainable, and that's a damned shame. There's a lot of great people on DS, and a lot of great work that's been done on it. With the prevalence of MMORPG's and other games, muds face an uphill battle and it's very easy for them to go under. I simply hope that doesn't happen here.

Joined: Posts: -19

I agree with most, if not all that was said in this post. But, no game will last forever. I'm not trying to say it's fate, or anything like that, but games come, and games go.

I do agree that there are a LOT of skills that need to be looked at, re-calibrated, and overhauled for the classes to really get balanced. The only problem with that is that (to my knowledge), Melleth is the only active person with access to the code of the game, and having a family, a job, a social life, etc can interfere with the time and effort it takes to sort all of this stuff out.

And without a huge active Builder/Immortal base, we're not putting out new content near as fast as we should be. I mean, we don't need new content every week, but a new area, even if a small, 10 room addition to someplace is a nice bonus to find one day!

Oh, and more mid-level zones/gear would be nice, but that ties in with the lack of builders, as well. So, it's really going to take a big team effort to pull this mud back up to where it was. It CAN be done, it'll just take a lot of time, and a lot of effort on everyone's part.

Think up ideas, new area concepts, little things that you'd like to see in the game, or things you miss, and post them in this topic. Give us something to chew over, and spit out into an awesome zone, or a new piece of gear, or something like that.

Joined: Posts: -19

I have to agree with a few points.

The mud as far as new areas or items for one. Besides chiros I have not seen anything new be done, sure some areas were 'fixed', but nothing that was really new.

I have to agree that there is a drop off in the mid levels of things to use or places to hunt. For the most part there is lasen, and if your neutral, its not the greatest place to hunt. Though I will say that the high end leveling is just not there. Sure there is sehaelas and the citadel, but those only go so far.

I do agree that the guilds need an overhaul. With a smaller pbase there are just not enough players to go around. Its hard to find that priest or mage, which can hinder or make some things you wish to do near impossible. Alot of the in game spell items have been removed, such as the Sense life potions from cloudwalker. With only one or two active mages, that makes getting some things done just a pain. I'm not saying every guild should be able to do everything, I'm saying that the more mundane things such as leveling and quests should be easier for the individual to do, no matter what guild they are in.

I will say this, RP has dropped off alot. Mainly due to the shrinking player base.. There is little interaction between the guilds, mainly due to the fact that they lack the members to have wars and all the other interesting things that used to go on. Those people who do interact tend to be friends and have a common goal, so Rp tends to drop off there as well.

I've also noticed doing some of the 'endgame' quests that the scrips/damage that some of these mobs do is just kinda nutty. Either they are still balanced from the old DS, or just ment to be done with a larger pbase at ones disposal, but when a mob has an area script that drops you to around 20-40% in one go, and everyone in the party is hit, and this same script goes off two rounds later, it seems a bit much.

Immortal involvement, I loved it. I know the imms have lives, and DS isn't pay to play, so its all out of their free time, but I miss it. It was awesome when we had imm driven events, be it a quest or just a few random goings on like goblins invading Tyr. I would gladly offer my time to be a PR imm of sorts and run quests and the like, merely because I know it helps general pbase moral and the overall experience one gets when they play here.

Joined: Posts: -19

As far as items go, one potential quick fix would be a lower level area providing some more diverse equipments. For instance, there's no good shields for low players to my knowledge. From what other players have told me, the armor system on DS currently seems to be having issues, so if all the lower end shields only generate armor, they're not terribly useful beyond serving as a means to shield block.

My solution, would be code a lower level zone, which I'll be more than willing to help write descriptions for. In the zone, perhaps making it a jousting tournament or battleground with each knight having a very basic 1/1 shield. (+to attack and damage). To diversify it, make sure every shield has a different emblem related to the gods or other heraldry. You could have a shield with a pair of scales on it for Tygona, a black raven on a blood red field for Ahandora, not to mention generic fantasy heraldry like dragons etc. Mechanically, all the shields would be the same, yet it would give lower end players more diversity (and allow them to have more theme) with their chars, as well as fill a necessary equipment hole.

You could also use the knights to fill in necessary equipment gaps, the thought process behind Chiros' of filling equipment gaps, providing equipment that mechanically is the same but had cosmetic differences is a great idea for the mud, and one I'd like to see pushed forward.

Joined: Posts: -19

Something that Balgrom brought up to me the other night was the idea of a shop in the game that can re-string current equipment.

Not a recraft command per se, but more along the lines of a store that would let you change the command words, short and long descriptions, and "look at" descriptions of an item, to allow for a larger diversity of items in the game, although everyone is still using the "same" gear statwise. It's be great to see higher-level players in a "custom-made" suit of armor that all matches and goes together, instead of the uber-tier items we see all the time.

I personally think it's an awesome idea, and it would add a LOT of variety to the game. Stats would remain unchanged, so even if you turned a generic dagger into Ragnaros, The World Ender, it's still hitting like a generic dagger.

Joined: Posts: -19

I can definitely agree on many points. There is certainly a lack of diversity and interaction. More player driven content is a great idea. I think quests, and therefore quest tokens, should be easier to come by. Bringing back/re-enabling some of the more obscure or far flung items would encourage more exploration. I remember there being a lot of quests that are now broken or much too confusing. I'm not looking for a total overhaul, but I remember there being some things in DS that made things exciting that no longer exist. Wild woods? Those were fun because they gave people a break from the grind and allowed them to build something for themselves through their own work. The quest with the statues, I hear that's broken? So many other things I've forgotten because people never do them anymore. When's the last time anyone went to MoI or Vice? I don't think we even need new areas, we just need reasons to go to the old areas. Throw some more diverse armour out there. Even if it's the same as what is already available stat wise, some players do like to customize their character.

Then there's levels and the 'end game'. Personally I think lifting or at least bumping up the cap would make a difference. As a Priest, even 200+, there is no way I'll ever be able to do some of those cool things the big kids in old DS used to do. There simply are not enough people around for me to group with. No amount of great armour will get me even close to seeing laby. That's where an issue of RP arises. I've never seen so much guild jumping. Everyone is so focussed on building these mega characters so they can go it alone that they don't take the time or put in the effort to play their characters. I'll be honest, Eve is a terrible character, horrible stats, single guild skills... but I won't give up on her, not even for all the wars, backstabbing, and other crap.

I'm sure there's other observations and such I was looking to discuss, but I'd rather take this rare opportunity to RP. There's still a reason I keep coming back to DS. There's still a reason I keep introducing people to DS. Call it nostalgia, or an appreciation for what is a well built game (if somewhat in disrepair). I do hope that we can work together to improve it again. There still are people out there looking for new realms, we can be a realm to stay in.

Joined: Posts: -19

Not to be negative, but there seems to be a lot of people saying there isn't any roleplay, but there is some. Granted it's not realm shattering roleplay, or roleplay that involves everyone, but when you come to a fountain area where everyone is at and everyone is talking in OOC, it does inhibit the roleplay a little bit.. and by that I don't mean the OOC channel I mean saying (ooc) stuff. Sure you can walk in and start roleplaying a bit, but then as a person on the other side of that character I feel rude because they were talking about something beforehand, or two I just don't think they're really interested in roleplay.

I roleplay with a few people, but that roleplay doesn't really affect anything outside of us. If we want a bit more roleplay in the realm, I think it's going to take a little bit of give and take from everyone that is currently playing or it's just going to be a waste of peoples time. That or we start specifically recording rp scenes onto the board, which is a little farfetched due to then people know whats going on that weren't present, but the 'word of mouth' that would normally happen because of a certain roleplay within a city isn't present DS like it would be, so technically it might not be a bad idea to start just a little recording of your perspective of how a roleplayed event occurred. The more roleplay that is put out there, the more interest it might catch from the everyday player.

On the topic of classes, I'm thinking that it may be in the best interest to reinstate free guild transfers but reinstate the need of a GM/IMM to approve the guild transfer. I like the system, but it's restrictive. The roleplayers will roleplay, and the dualers may have to roleplay a little more to join a guild rather than grinding QTs and Gold. Plus, if the GMs wish they can reinstate old 'taxes' which is basically the same as the dualing system currently, but they were usually a little lower in cost, and negotiable. Would a Ranger really have to fork up 100k gold and 1k QTs to become a druid? I think not. Where as I believe at one point the mage guild and priest guild were both turned into more 'academic' guilds and there of course were costs to enter to 'learn' from the school.

Gear. There does seem to be the same redundant set of gear for every player to shoot for, and then the next step, that only specific players that have dual'ed correctly or played the right class can obtain. I realize DS is a group game, but the wide spread of time zones and availabilities of the small player base it has left don't really coincide well to make that a real possibility for most. Not entirely sure what can be done about that. But the code to 'customize' premade items seems like a good start. I wouldn't mind turning say the most common dagger the "dragons tooth' from wyrm turned into a 'Ray of Lutyre's Light' or 'Deaths Betrayal' or just anything unique and nifty. I wouldn't suggest that you make us pay QTs for the custom, but I don't think anyone would have any problems paying a little bit of gold to have it done, maybe something along the lines of 100 times the item level in gold to customize. so a level 200 item would only cost 20k to customize, most people have that lying around at that point. Or better yet, everyone could very cheaply customize an 'rp' outfit for 100g by collecting level 1 items.

Oh, I think I've rambled far too long and it's way too late. So, disclaimer: If I said anything that offended anyone, or pointed fingers or anything of that nature, it was unintentional. (I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything of that sort but it's late and it's possible, so disclaiming it to save feelings!)

Joined: Posts: -19

A few quick things to add on the issues touched on:

1) Revamping an old area is much quicker than building a new one. It also kills two birds with one stone: the lack of variety in mobiles, leveling, equipment, and inactive areas. Vnums are already set up and you can also go through and check the procs to weed out any broken quests.

2) I don't know that it actually costs that many QTs to go to the custom gear shop and make superficial, aesthetically pleasing, roleplay enhancing gear. I've got a set of RP gear - I don't remember the QTs being that big of a deal. In fact, I had to do it twice, because once I logged in naked and had lost it all. Then again, it was forever ago that I did it, so I may be remembering the cost incorrectly.

3) Automated quests that give out QTs would be great fun. I know there are a few, and the royal line, but I think we could do with some more.

4) I have to agree with Vesper - wait, no I don't, he's not my GM any more.

4a) *cough* I have to agree with Vesper about the amount of effort people are willing to put in to having 1) RP storylines and 2) coordination of RP.

5) Oh, and feel free to bother me to RP at any time, if you stumble across my self.

Rys.

Joined: Posts: -19

Its tough out there for any MUD, even some of the big names (not gonna mention them... don't want anyone checking them out) only just barely manage more than 20 or so people on the weekends.

We, as players, should take some initiative.

Without taking time to learn building, there are much more simple things we can do.

You just about have to break people's arms to get them to do anything outside of their daily grind these days.

On IMM/Builder involvement :

They're here, may not seem like it, but they are.

For those of you interested in learning how to build, there are resources out there to do so. The Builder's Academy is great for that.

On Guild Balance :

I'm not sure how to go about this exactly, but there are more than a few guilds that could use an update. Outside of creating an itemized list of skills for each guild, which would be an undertaking in itself, and checking them off vs basic builds (Fighter Cleric Mage Thief).... and then deciding which Roshambo setup works best ( Rock, Paper, Scissors style who beats who)... and then telling guilds they may have to lose some skills/spells... well you get the idea.

I don't think it would go over well, and I'd hate to see anyone ragequit.

You must understand though, that alot of us on here have our own agendas in that regard so its hard to take anything anyone says about how underpowered their guild is seriously.

That being said, I think balance is only slightly skewed for the most part. Grey Paladins and Rangers seem to get the short of the stick, while Druids and Fighters have always been a little OP in my opinion.

Thats just how it is unfortunately, we have to accept it and learn to work around it.

I still HATE Druids though.

Good to see some discussion on the boards again, about time Cool

Joined: Posts: -19

Oh!

Right...

Roleplay Idea

I'm more than often guilty of using OOC in say, but its rampant these days. We still roleplay here, but there's always that odd interjection of OOC. We should honestly dedicate a day during the week where we all come to an agreement to keep OOC minimal.

That is to say, I'd hate to place limits on anyone still playing.

Anyway, I'm constantly trying to conjure up ideas to get players involved in some RP. A few work, most don't, but that's largely due to the feeling of apathy that envelops the long grind from 100 - 200.

On Dualling :

Never liked it, I personally think its too cheap. Always thought there should be a skill/spell cap that one player can have, or more guilds should forbid dualling period.

Again though, its my preference, and don't want to limit any other player's enjoyment of DS as long as its not at the expense of the general playerbase.

Joined: Posts: -19

I'm not sure where such animosity for duelers came from. Who here has ever played a dual guild character?Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

They are not the powerhouses everyone likes to chalk them up to be. Maelius is my first dueler, and I can honestly say when I went straight DP, or Priest, or Mage, or fighter in the past, my 200 characters were stronger all around than he is. Yes Maelius does have some nifty skills and some quirks that I do enjoy, but compared to the time, the mound of gold and Quest tokens, the waiting and the Various RP, they really don't balance out.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

Due to not having many ranks in any one guild, my spell costs are through the roof, and because of also jumping guild, my base mana pool, falls short of being anything special. Same goes for my Hp and movement. I have to rely heavily on in game items, potions, scrolls and my gear to be able to do the things I do. Not to mention some good old fashioned know how of the game due to 6 plus years of playing.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

Eve, priest is a great class for the labby, and you could honestly fair much better than I can in there with the right Prep and know how of what to expect. Trust me, Been there done that with my priest.. it was a lot easier, less deaths haha. I'm sure Maelius would gladly share his knowledge and lead a group within its walls if you asked.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

Anyhow, I'll wrap up my rant about duelers and move onto my next point, if you still think we're overpowered. I encourage you to spend a month or so drawing up a build, then another 3-4 months sitting at various overall ranks for QTs for pracs or for the dual itself. Then ensure you can get the okay from the GM's required to do what you wish to do, and then planning how your going to balance out your short comings for the various skills and spells you gathered not to mention stat lost for those skills and spells due to moving to a guild without that focus. I'll lend a hand in all aspects if you like, except the QT/Gold gathering, I'll let you have fun with that yourself, I've been there and done that.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

Maelius is a very well rounded character yes, but is he perfect? No. I have no offensive spells to speak of, due to mana cost and the fact that the damage they would do would not be worth it due to my guild levels. My defensive spells have a very high mana cost, and I have to plan anything big I attack to ensure I have the proper items/spells/potions/scrolls to make it through the fight. Yes I do have some defensive skills, but compare them to someone who spent time within the guilds I gathered them from, and its kinda laughable, they do help, but thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s about it. Maelius is a good character for a group, I still require a priest, and a fighter, and who couldn't use a mage or two these days?Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

In raw strength, I would have rather had a straight mage, they can do some pretty amazing things toward the end, or a straight fighter. Sev used to make me drool when we'd run through the labby, the things he could do made me second guess dueling, but I had already sunken about 8 months of time into maelius, so I figured IÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢d have to stick it out to the end.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

Moving on.. RP. Who isn't guilty of talking OOC at the fountain? I know I do it, though I try my best to stay in character in game when I can. Though I will admit when someone isn't trying to RP at all, I tend to take on a "#$@$ it" attitude.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

Gear and weapons: I think we do need more for various levels, and more for the various ethos too. Good seems to take the lead early on, toward the end evil seems to have more easily obtained items at their fingertips, but through out the ranks there needs to be more for both!Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

My main gripe is weapons, slashing weapons seem to be the best you can get toward the end of the game(minus GM weapons of course). I would like to see more amazing daggers, staves, whips and unusual weapons(which I think there are only maybe 6 in game all which are not that great)!Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

I would love to see some new areas, but revamping old areas so I have to go an relearn them sounds like a great idea as well. Anything new peeks my interest honestly.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

Quest, quest quest! I would love to see more quests of all skills and knowledge requirements. Honestly doing some of the later quests is where I learned everything I know so far about DS!Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

Also maybe bring back some old areas? Like Graye, I miss that place haha. I know there are a few others but I can't recall them off the top of my head.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â

Anyhow, if your looking for some role play, or just someone to group with to help with that grind for a various item or rank, let me know! It's boring running around trying to collect demonskins for hoursÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â

Joined: Posts: -19

I think I speak for everyone when I ask,

Where did Santa go?

Ryun, Arch-Magi

Joined: Posts: -19

I hear what you're saying Maelius, its not that I think duallers are OP per se... but I've seen some pretty damned ridiculous stuff over the years. The time it takes to gather the assets required is not that long in all honesty, but I'll agree getting a GM to approve is probably going to take some finesse. My resentment stems from the very first DS character I had, a Fighter at the time, and after seeing dozens of players roll through there for a few skills... I quickly grew to develop an intense dislike for duallers. Just a personal preference, I've always taken guild loyalty a little too seriously perhaps though.

As far as equipment goes though, well I dunno.

I like Soul Reaper and the Blade of the Elements as piercing weapons that have more than one function.

In all honesty, I think some of the equipment already existing may need minor tweaks and that perhaps we don't need too many new items.

I will admit, it does get a little old seeing everyone with the same scimitar or Chiros gear early on... BUT there is something to be said for originality.

Wearing some different gear is not necessarily the handicap its made out to be.

Looking forward to catching Santa this year too...

Maybe he can cure this damned Strep Throat.

Joined: Posts: -19

Theres a few things I've stumbled across recently that seem like incomplete/broken quests...wouldn't mine submitting a list if need be.

I LOVE the idea of using old areas. How about the Holy City? Perhaps we need a reason to go there more than twice in the course of our lives. (minus going back to help someone else.) Myshaud seems like a horrendously underused area... Vice? Personally I've always hated it, but hell , give me a reason to actually learn my way around. Port of Harem seems like an interesting area, would be nice if I had a reason to be there other than my legs collapsed in the whirlpool...

Which should be tweaked, its entirely too difficult to get into that town nowadays - to the point where no one really bothers. Perhaps the shopkeeps down there could be stocked finally as well?

Lets actually hatch this idea of openning/fixing/updating the current areas. Dwarven mines...Cloudswalker...Gah whats that one place...Dulcimer? Theres so much more than the three big cities, and that wretched place named Chiros.

Joined: Posts: -19

Dulcimer! I had almost forgotten that place existed. Nice horn there for small piercing weapon users though.

MoI would be nice to see revamped.

Vice.. I think there is one path I know, and it just goes to two people who have items I want.. The rest i've never bothered with, death traps are no fun with retrieve costs so high at the alter and exp costs with a death being rather high at that. But I would gladly run about the place naked if there was more of a reason to.

How about some more planes too? Astral and the fire plane are interesting, but i'd like to have some other planes of existance to visit, plus might give mages some more use for the gate spell.

Cloudwalker has some uses, though once you outgrow the weapons there, it gets long forgotten. I think a revamp would be a nice addition.

Tyr.. its sad to say but this city is all but forgotten. Anymore everyone runs to Sehaelas or Diabolus and Keltrath. Tyr was once the main focus, though I guess when you die you did end up there. I have rarely visited tyr except to pass through.

Perhaps a few additions to Ofginia or the Goblin town as well? Granted their are a few uses for them, but for the most part they lay forgotten as well.

Myshuad! Such a large and colorful city, its really quite an interesting place. One of my favorite area's to be honest. Though because its so far out of the way few people go there, or in the case of our newer players, know it exists. I would love to see some life breathed back into Myshuad, perhaps an easier way to access the city? The desert is good fun though.. I must admit.

The Orc village and the forests outside of Sehaelas could also perhaps play a host to new areas, see a bit of life breathed back into them.

Dragonspyre. Wonderful place, but perhaps a bit lacking?

Dwarven mines I would have to say walk the lines of Dragonspyre sadly.

The whirlpool.. How I loathe that thing, never takes you where you want to go easily. If I want the city, it takes ages, if I want one of the other exits, I get the city. You just can't win with it, I think it could use an adjustment myself.