So... yeah. This game isn't very friendly to new people.

Joined: Posts: -19

Okay, I'm new to this. I just want to state that I'm not dissing your game, or anything like that. These are just some observations.

I started playing this game because my a friend of mine loves it, and to be honest, this has become kind of frustrating because I'm lost. Not in the game, lost because of it. I have tried and tried to get into this game and despite my best efforts, I can't. I've tried to understand the game and it doesn't click with me and I can't find much information explaining practically anything.

Of course, I wouldn't say this stuff if I wasn't willing to explain some of the issues that I've had.

I do not fundamentally understand the way the game controls and it makes it some what difficult to play. I know MUDs work a bit different than most games out there, which is cool, but there really are no resources around for me to try to grasp anything of this. I don't understand how half the commands work. For instance, I logged in one day and the game just stopped displaying the exits. I have no idea why this happened. I had to type "Look exit" every single time I wanted to see what my options were. If it wasn't for my friend, I wouldn't have known about the auto exit command.

I went to the command list as well and the syntax of how you actually implement things is a little backwards to me, but I get it now.

My biggest issue currently is the game is completely unforgiving if I try to figure things out myself. At least that's been my experience. If I wander around, get jumped, I lose all my stuff. Then I gotta call my friend and go "Hey, help me go get my stuff back." I didn't learn the "consider" command until my friend told me it existed.

Maybe it's because I like to attack things. I dunno.

It doesn't promote exploration because you practically have to know a boat load about the game (ethos, what cities are what, etc) before you even wander around. Since I don't know much about that stuff and I have been unable to really get into the meat of the game. The game thus far has given me very little reason to advance and punishes me for screwing up and that doesn't make me want to play.

And quest tokens. What are those and how do I get them? Seriously. I have absolutely no idea what the deal with those are. Or how to obtain them.

And the tattoos I didn't know about. Those are cool.

I think another problem, and one that is a really BIG problem, is I have no vested interest in this game and there is nothing that will give me that vested interest besides playing it, which I'm having an awfully hard time figuring out. We spent the last 15 minutes wandering around trying to get quest tokens. This is a game that you guys have built. You know it's lore, why things are what they are, and that gives you more of a reason to play. I know NOTHING of that, and the website doesn't explain it either which makes immersion kind of an issue. .

There is obviously quite a bit to this game, but there really isn't much in the game to explain it to somebody like me. I don't understand why the guilds work the way they do, I don't understand Ethos, I don't get why I can't go into certain cities, I don't know where I should go to level.

I think a newb faq would solve almost all of this.

I'm not trying to be critical. these are just observations. Thanks for reading.

Joined: Posts: -19

First off Ran, welcome to DreamScapes. I'm sorry you are not having a good time, but perhaps my post will encourage you. It has a LOT of information... But I didn't have an easy time getting used to this game either I had NO clue where to go, what to do, how to RP, or any of the jargon. My first character died litterally hundreds of times. But now? Hell, I learned and now I know my stuff. Other players might tell you I pretty much have the realm memorized. So with that in mind, send me a PM with any questions, just give me a few days to get back to you.

I WOULD offer my help in-game, but I don't have a working computer, so I can't.

Let's go over your points one by one...

Ran wrote:

I do not fundamentally understand the way the game controls and it makes it some what difficult to play. I know MUDs work a bit different than most games out there, which is cool, but there really are no resources around for me to try to grasp anything of this. I don't understand how half the commands work. For instance, I logged in one day and the game just stopped displaying the exits. I have no idea why this happened. I had to type "Look exit" every single time I wanted to see what my options were. If it wasn't for my friend, I wouldn't have known about the auto exit command.

I went to the command list as well and the syntax of how you actually implement things is a little backwards to me, but I get it now.

I agree MUDS are harder to learn. There is no map, and no graphical view to see landmarks, or the like. What worked for ME was using room names as land marks, and playing connect the dots with room names.

Moving, obviously you know, but you can just type n, e, s, w, u, d as well. And when you REALLY know your way around you can sting them together like nneennnnnwwwwwwww. You should use score formate 3.

You also make an alias to hotkey big commands like instead of score put 3, and that will score your score. To do that type "alias 3 score" The name of the alias is "3" and it's effect is it shows your score (for whatever format you have it under). You can do this for any command, like sheathing, eating, drinking. Whatever. It's a little advanced... but not TOO hard.

A small list of your most commen commands off the top of my head...

score
draw
sheath
scan
flee
escape
who
guild who
gossip
promote
eat
drink
consider

Ran wrote:

My biggest issue currently is the game is completely unforgiving if I try to figure things out myself. At least that's been my experience. If I wander around, get jumped, I lose all my stuff. Then I gotta call my friend and go "Hey, help me go get my stuff back." I didn't learn the "consider" command until my friend told me it existed.

Maybe it's because I like to attack things. I dunno.

If you are going to a new area and just don't know if it will be safe, go ahead and buy a blue potion from the magic shop in Keltrath. I THINK it's called Magical Mysteries... The one north and east on the main shopping strip. And remember, Diabolous hates good, and Sehaelas hates evil, so avoid being seen in those cities if you are the wrong ethos. And SHEATH WHEN GOING TO TYR.

As for attacking things. Yes, you can attack 95% of the mobs (MUD speak for NPC/Monster). But it's not always a good idea to do so. Always use consider, and ALWAYS spell up when you go hunting or before a fight. How? Go to a healer mob, either in your temple, or in one of the cities and get Sanc, armor, bless.

type "heal" by itself to see the list, and type heal sanc, etc.

Of the top of my head areas that have hardcore mobs are the jungle before Nosfer, Lobo hanging around west of "A Hitching Post???" east of Tyr, the OgHr east of HV, and the Cave Predator in the caves near HV.

Those are all harder areas, you shouldn't even BOTHER with until you're much higher in rank, and know the game much better. For now, if you are still under rank 20, stay in the combat arena under the Keltrath fountain. Screw around in the tree tops west of Keltrath, and the farm lands south of Keltrath. At around 30+ or so hit up HV. Just don't go east, or do the Fire Dancer quest. Get used to combat, rank up, and get more comfortable with the game. Deposit most of your gold in the bank, and keep SOME on hand for spells. But that is vastly important. DEPOSIT whenever you have a great amount.

When you die, and you WILL die, even our most powerful and knowagable players die a few times. You CAN grab your stuff by yourself, either with a blue potion, or hide & sneak combo (but you can never be totally sure you are hidden). But sometimes, yes, you will need help. But if you think for a minute you may be able to get your stuff at least most of your stuff alone.

Death on DS is HARSH. Very harsh. After dying on DS any other death in any other game online or offline is a friggen cake walk. On WoW, you lose NO exerince and simply have to go to your coprse. Woopity-crap! Try losing 3 million experince points and have to go get your stuff from an aggresive mob.

Ran wrote:

It doesn't promote exploration because you practically have to know a boat load about the game (ethos, what cities are what, etc) before you even wander around. Since I don't know much about that stuff and I have been unable to really get into the meat of the game.

Well, ethos are the "path" you walk. You can be Good, Neutral, or Evil. Most guilds require you be a certain ethos, and race. Now, two cities, will dislike you based on your ethos. Sehaelas hates evil, and it's mobs will attack you on site. Diablous hates good, same deal there.

NOW. An evil player can still attack an evil mob, what happens is they will end up becoming slightly good. An evil player at their most evil is -1000 (vile fiend) and then can still kill evil and recieve experince up until -350 (malevolent).

Same deal for good. They can go from 1000 to 350.

Neutral can go from -350 to 350. After they "stray" from their ethos, they will no longer receive experince points, or recover HP, MP, or MV. And can get stuck with no food or water and starve to death. Unless somebody brings them food and water, and elven boots they won't be able to make it back. So it's VERY important you keep an eye on your ethos. Most areas have a mix of good and evil mobs, or have opposite ethos mobs somewhere close by.

Diablous has the ghosts north of it in the scorched planes, and Sehaelas has the Kobold tribe south of it. How can you tell what mob is good or evil? The Dark Paladins and Light Paladins have a skill where they can see the aura of their opposite ethos. There are potions that can see auras too. But MOSTLY it's just experince and watching to see what mob gives you in your ethos score. Red auras are evil, green are neutral, and blue are good.

Ran wrote:

And quest tokens. What are those and how do I get them? Seriously. I have absolutely no idea what the deal with those are. Or how to obtain them.

Quest Tokens are just another form of currency. You can use them to help build a shop, a house, expand your guild, or help make a custom piece of gear for yourself. Or you can use them to help pay to retreive your corpse at an altar if you can't get to it. But that is expensive. How you obtain them is simply by walking around. They are randomally strewn about the realm, but don't go THAT much out of your way to try and find them, gold is more important. You can also get QTs from Prince Karine (and his other sibling mobs) by asking for a quest. That is a bit advanced as he might ask you to go into more dangerous areas. So don't worry too much about that.

Ran wrote:

And the tattoos I didn't know about. Those are cool.

Ya! Tattoos are fairly new. The higher up in circle you are, the more powerful the tattoo can be. This can range anywhere from temporaily boosting a stat, to giving you a full heal. "tattoo rub" to use them, and "tattoo help" for more info.

Speaking of circles, in your guild there are 10 circles. 1 is the lowest, and circle 10 is the Guild Master/Mistress. Circle promotions are typically charter based, but the Guild Master can give you a circle quest tailor made for you, if they like. At least go for circle 2 for now, so you can read the guild boards and the charter.

That brings me to guilds. Guilds on DS are a family unit. Guildmates are expected to help each other out. Even guilds with mixed ethos excpect evil guildmates to help out good guildmates and vise versa, barring some wacky RP reason. The Guild Master is the leader of the guild and it is expected you listen to them and show them respect, even if you don't agree with them on EVERYTHING.

Ran wrote:

I think another problem, and one that is a really BIG problem, is I have no vested interest in this game and there is nothing that will give me that vested interest besides playing it, which I'm having an awfully hard time figuring out. We spent the last 15 minutes wandering around trying to get quest tokens. This is a game that you guys have built. You know it's lore, why things are what they are, and that gives you more of a reason to play. I know NOTHING of that, and the website doesn't explain it either which makes immersion kind of an issue.

Most of us didn't build this game, in fact a lot of the biggest players (Tarris, Adun, Troatlan and to a much lesser extent, me.) are fairly new-school. Most of the original players who shaped all the systems are gone. To be fair, the players I mentioned have had HUGE impacts on this game, and shape a lot of things as well. But hopefully, knowing that might inpsire you to one day get to their level. I may know a LOT now, but I started off much the same as you. And the others will admit they made some drastic mistakes as well.

Ran wrote:

I think a newb faq would solve almost all of this.

I agree. Hopefully soon.

At any rate dude, I hope you learned some things from this post, and hopefully I can meet you in-game.

Joined: Posts: -19

This was an excellent and very well thought out response, Ciroth. It also looks like it would be a great start to that newbie FAQ. Thank you Smile

There is currently a project in the works that should help newbies out tremendously as well.

Joined: Posts: -19

I just wan to say thanks to both Ran for pointing out what is so hard about learning DS for a new player (something I've been trying to say for quite a while) and to Ciroth for making such a great reply.

If you have any more questions at all, feel free to PM me or Instant Message me @ Froldorf. Although I haven't had much time lately, I'll still try to answer any questions you may have to the best of my ability.

-Aikmen

Joined: Posts: -19

Ciroth you did a wonderful job of explaining things I must admit you did a well informed post with plenty of very useful insightful information.

Another suggestion for all new players is to invest afew minutes and get learn the game abit through the help files, to do so just simply type help, this will give you a list of topics to read about pick a topic to read up on. You can also type help and the name of a skill to learn some information about that skill or spell.

Also using the newbie channel if you are infact new just to say hello, and help, and ask questions about the realm is a good way to go, most players are friendly enough to answer questions and even stop what they are doing to come running to your aid. Others may even give you gold and items to help you along your way. To use the newbie channel just type newbie followed by your message. example( newbie how do I get to the adventurer's guild?)
also a fact that some know and others dont is that once you reach the adventurer's guild go to Mad Marvins (I think thats how it's spelled) and simply type the word gimme you will be given some basic equipment to get you started and on your way for free. Just remember that though things can be tough and confusing to learn at first, if you invest just an hour or so afew days a week into learning about the game I can assure you, that you'll enjoy the enviroment of Dream Scapes II

Joined: Posts: -19

I've noticed how trying to find new places really can get you killed in ds. first i thought id go and have a look in Diabolus, and i got one room from where the wagon left me, and i got jumped buy three guards. killing me almost instantly. And just now i was out exploreing somewhere east of tyr, and i ran past a guy caled "Courtier Lobo" who, killed me with two hits... really diden't have time to flee there Embarassed

Joined: Posts: -19

When you're wandering into a new area you can type "scan" to see whats surrounding you a couple moves in each direction, sometimes enemies are visible and sometimes they arent.